Ahead of the Oct. 26 release of their book 'Renegades: Born In The USA,' former President Barack Obama and iconic musician Bruce Springsteen sat down at Springsteen's New Jersey farm — where they recorded the podcast that the book is based on— for an interview with Audie Cornish, co-host of NPR's 'All Things Considered.' 

In this excerpt, they discuss the limits of optimism. 

• Read or listen to: "In a new book, Barack Obama and Bruce Springsteen envision a more unified America" at https://www.npr.org/2021/10/21/1048032010/obama-bruce-springsteen-podcast-book-renegades?live=1

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Barack and Bruce. Obama and Springsteen. The Boss and Mr. President. Or maybe you can just call them renegades.

Launched in February, the 'Renegades' podcast consisted of a series of candid conversations between iconic musician Bruce Springsteen and former President Barack Obama, recorded in the summer of 2020 during the height of the pandemic.

As they discuss their lives and careers, the recurring thread of their conversations is one that's a shared passion: the love of their country, despite its flaws and troubled history (and present struggles).

Now, their podcast has been turned into a book. 'Renegades: Born In The USA.' Ahead of the Oct. 26 release, Obama and Springsteen sat down in their studio at Springsteen's New Jersey farm — where they recorded the podcast — for an interview with Audie Cornish, co-host of NPR's 'All Things Considered.' 

Among the topics discussed in the interview was critical race theory. That part of the conversation is excerpted here.  

• Read or listen to: "In a new book, Barack Obama and Bruce Springsteen envision a more unified America" at https://www.npr.org/2021/10/21/1048032010/obama-bruce-springsteen-podcast-book-renegades?live=1

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